The following discussion clip is from the Occupy Wall Street demand discussion list.
Here is the lead-in post from littleg:
The slight repairs that we [Occupy Wall Street] do is what is crucial to enable us to change the system drastically. The reason we have to do it step by step is, people as always are hesitant to change.
Here is the follow-up post from DAN1:
Again good points “littleg”. Very reasonable. That People are hesitant to change is what I have noticed too. I believe that is fear at work. I find myself appreciating the angry Individuals that demand all change now. They are the nudges that get the populace moving in the right direction. Whenever We can, We should reinforce these emotional ones with Our Reasonable approach. I believe that can make a pretty powerful social formula.
I replied as follows:
Nanook:
The problem with this approach is that people are not looking widely enough at the crisis we are in. While the protests are called “Occupy Wall Street”, this is NOT only an economic problem. We have entered a new era in human – environment development. We will NOT get out of the current recession “because”, in the past, we always have. The past had advantages that the present doesn’t have. Specifically:
Human population is now 7B. The sustainable carrying capacity of the earth, by the best current estimates, is about 2 to 3 B MAXIMUM.
We have mined the easy resources. This is no longer about projections of shortages for a hundred years from now. We have reached the time when the shortages were forecast to start and they are occurring – drinkable water, aquifers for irrigation, many minerals, wood ( even China is out of wood ), soils are depleted, ocean fish have collapsed by 90%, oil production is falling etc.
We have polluted the earth, oceans and sky. Global warming is moving the weather bands and causing severe draughts. The ice caps are melting. Insect pests are moving into new areas already resistant to every known insecticide. Medical supplies are now showing shortages across the globe and severe plague diseases once thought eradicated are coming back resistant to every known form of antibiotic.
Automation has replaced human labor. Western society is overflowing with STUFF! People have filled their houses and now fill rented storage building. Our culture does not know how to employ people. The cry for MORE EDUCATION is dead on arrival. Most occupational sectors can not employ more people because they have higher education levels. And when they do hire someone because of higher education, they have to let someone else go. Its a losing game.
And, there is the new pressure of the 3rd world wanting the high standard of living we have in the western world. Because of the western world’s aristocratic attitude, this will just lead to exploitation of the 3rd world. That will lead to rebellion and increase the demand for weapons – which is a big NET LOSS of productivity for society. Why? Weapons explode and destroy infrastructure. That means all the labor and material used to build the weapons just explode – a total loss. The world then has to rebuild all the infrastructure just to get back to where we already were.
The world is NOT in good shape. It is not going to take just a year or so to see how any changes we introduce will work. AND, the warning time we were given in the 70’s and 80’s has already run out.
